Thursday, September 08, 2005


Mark Sheldon at writes that Kyle Lohse hurt a finger on his pitching hand while hitting some doors in the clubhouse after Ron Gardenhire pulled him after 2 innings, trailing 5-2, in Tuesday's loss to Texas. In "You Should See the Other Guy" news: the damage included a dent in the manager's office door.


As if that weren't enough to test the business relationship between manager and employee, Lohse escalated the tension by complaining to reporters after the game, "I would have liked to have somebody stand behind me and say, 'We've got your back, go out there and shut them down from here on. That didn't happen today, so whatever."

Oh, now it's ON!

"It's too bad you have to read stuff like that in the newspaper," Gardenhire said. "Don't have your back? I think I've had his back for three years.

"It's about winning. If you don't understand that, take a hike out of the clubhouse."

Gardenhire said he still hadn't spoken to Lohse about Tuesday night's incident.

"I have nothing to say," the manager said. "I don't have his back, so what do you want me to say?"

It's OK, Gardy. "I think I've had his back for three years" will suffice for now.

Kyle, did you not notice what happened to Luis Rivas when he took it for granted that he was a Made Man just because the club let him wear the uniform for 4+ years? Granted, you have not been such a consistent embarrassment to the uniform as Rivas has been, but since when does a career mark of 48-51, 4.77 ERA, and 1.43 WHIP entitle a pitcher not to get yanked after giving up 5 easy in the first couple frames of the game? Man, batters are hitting .300/.341/.470 off you this year. And you want to throw tantrums and rip the manager in the press because he doesn't give you the deference due to an Ace?

Kyle, have you met Francisco Liriano? Behold the face of the future. He'll be having your job soon enough.

I've said before that Lohse should be on the trading block because of his due salary increase next year, and the fact that he often has trouble getting through a batting order more than once or twice, but now it really has to happen, don't you think? His walking papers have been all but signed by Kyle himself, marked with that dent in Gardy's door. Imagine what must go through the manager's mind every morning when he comes to work and sees that dent before he's even had his first cup of coffee. I wonder if Gardy would like to have it fixed or if he'd prefer to keep the reminder awhile.

Lohse didn't clear waivers in August, so we know at least one team must have an interest in him. Ship him out by Thanksgiving, and apply that $4 million salary to some better use, like upgrading the offense.


At 9/08/2005 12:12 PM, Blogger Moss said...

Fair enough, FW. But a ticket out of town is probably in Lohse's best interest too. He was jerked around by 'Tool in the '02 (and '03, for that matter) playoffs when he was relegated to Mulholland-like duty after being effective throughout the year.

Plus, can you blame the guy for digging at his manager? 'Tool plays favorites like no one else, and Lohse is definitely not one of his favorites.

At 9/08/2005 12:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Gardy could have toned it down, but I dont blame him. Usually pulling a guy results in some hurt feelings and maybe some yelling, but not an assault on the managers office...

At 9/08/2005 12:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, I didnt here Lohse complaining last year when Gardy continually ran him out there even when he stunk

At 9/08/2005 12:36 PM, Blogger frightwig said...

True, Lohse in '02 felt what happens to "inexperienced" pitchers with this club when it reaches the postseason; and, Moss, you know I'm no fan of the Tool. But some guys have earned the moral authority to demand some special treatment and take on the manager through the press, some have not. Like Anon. said, the manager has stuck with Lohse through some awfully grim stretches since October 2002, too.

At 9/08/2005 2:04 PM, Blogger Third Base Line said...

I've always figured that you shouldn't throw tantrums unless sucking is unusual for you. I guess that falls under FW's principle of "moral authority", too. And Lohsie just doesn't have the moral authority to complain right now, regardless of the actions of others.

At 9/08/2005 3:59 PM, Blogger Moss said...

FW, Lohse was ignored in the '02 playoffs while he watches a September-callup named Cuddyer get a starting spot, supplanting Dustan Mohr in RF.

Furthermore, Lohse wasn't even used as a weapon out of the bullpen. He was simply sat, kept around for mop-up duty.

Kenny Rogers got similarly jerked around in '03 also. Would have been nice to have him back, but word is he wouldn't resign here after such treatment.

Moss doesn't think 'Tool was going with more established players as a principle, he was just being the 'Tool.

IMHO (In Moss' Humble Opinion)

At 9/08/2005 4:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

First A.J.
Then Moss
Now it's Lohse

see ya!

At 9/08/2005 5:27 PM, Blogger frightwig said...

Moss: No question, the way Lohse got relegated to mop-up duty for the 2002 playoffs, after he was one of the team's best starters in the 2nd half, was a ridiculous waste of resources.(Joe Mays took THREE starts in that postseason, after posting a 5.38 ERA and missing half the regular season with injuries.) Since then, sad to say, Lohse hasn't done much to show he deserves to be treated as anything more than a back-end starter. He's lucky to be in the rotation at all at this point. In many other organizations, he would've been a historical footnote by now, perhaps trying to hang on with his 3rd or 4th club, perhaps the Royals or Devil Rays.

Since you mention Rogers, remember that it was Lohse who got the 3rd start in the 2003 ALDS instead of Kenny. I think Rogers would have taken a start in the ALCS if the team had advanced, but only 3 starters were needed in the first round. Lohse and Rogers had comparable numbers. I'd guess Lohse just got that one start because he had seniority with the team, and maybe Gardy knew that Rogers was a rental but he'd have to live with Lohse going forward. If Kyle is keeping a tally of when the manager respected or disrespected him, he should put October 2003 in the "respect" column, yeah?

At 9/08/2005 5:53 PM, Blogger Moss said...

Hey FW,

Thanks for the clarification...Moss' memory is not great. But Moss does remember thinking that the '02 playoffs probably took a psychological toll on Lohse, which seemed to carry over into '03 and perhaps beyond.

BTW, Moss missed your insights for the last few days, FW! Keep them coming! Seems like a lot of the bloggers are losing some steam towards the end of the season, especially since the Twins will be on the sidelines.

At 9/08/2005 7:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since when is Cuddyer a pitcher? 2 completely different situations. How can you compare the roles?

At 9/08/2005 10:14 PM, Blogger Moss said...

Anon. -- Moss was just countering FW's point that Gardy was going with more experienced players over less experienced ones (although FW referred only to pitchers).

At 9/09/2005 1:15 AM, Blogger frightwig said...

Moss: frightwig has been in the wilderness of Idaho this week, cut off from daily internet access and Twins baseball. The only ballgame he's seen this week was Felix vs. Blanton on Monday.

One thing about Cuddyer in the 2002 playoffs: remember that even he got quickly jerked back to the bench during the ALCS, because he'd angered Gardy by taking a couple bad routes on flyballs to Rightfield.

At 9/09/2005 8:25 AM, Blogger SBG said...

Lohse was gone anyway. He just made it ugly at the end and probably cost himself a bunch of money on the free agent market.

Does any team want the season to end more than the Twins right now? (Ok, there are a few others.) This team needs to put this whole season in a metaphorical back closet and pretend it didn't happen.

At 9/09/2005 9:44 AM, Blogger Moss said...

FW, thanks for the banter. It's great to have you back, and Moss hopes you had a nice trip.


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